Info about /r/guitars: /r/guitars is a place for people to post pictures of and discuss everything about guitars i.e. Electric, acoustic, lap, steel, guitar amps, pedals, strings, picks, etc. Feel free to post pics of your own gear, cool gear you saw online or anything else as long as it complies with the rules. Spam posts advertising websites offering services such as guitar lessons. The USA one has a stamped number on the top of the headstock, the China one has a serial number printed on the top rear of the headstock. Mine is on Ebay: Item number: 78 As a matter of interest, I've had three 1930's Dobros, two wooden ones and one metal one. Vintage Dobros. Classic Instruments; Vintage Dobros. Dobro started its serial numbers around 800. Later in the ’30s Regal in Chicago confused things by numbering a run of Dobros across the same range. Only one, serial number 6845, is known today.
Vintage Guitars Info's
National Resonator and
National/Valco Map-shaped
Electric Vintage Guitar Info.
Contact the Vintage Guitar Info Guy.1928 National Tricone
style 1 squareneck
Introduction and Serial Numbers:
- National Resonator Introduction
(the different resonator systems and how they work and sound) - National Guitar Collectibility
- National Map Shaped Guitar Introduction
- Buying a National Guitar
- New National Guitars
- 1941-1968 National/Valco Serial Numbers
(including National, Valco, Supro instruments)
- Tricone models. Silver resonator metalbody, round and squareneck vintage models. Includes the Style 1, 1 1/2 ,2, 2 1/2, 3, 4, 35, 97 nickel plated models, and the style M-3 painted tricones.
- Style O silver resonator vintage metalbody
- Style N silver resonator vintage metalbody
- The Don silver resonator vintage metalbody
- Duolian resonator vintage metalbody
- Triolian resonator vintage metalbody
- Supro Collegian resonator vintage metalbody
- Wood Body Resonator Models including Triolian, Trojan, Estralita,El Trovador, Rosita, Aragon, Havana.
- Ukuleles resonator vintage metalbody
National Resonator Introduction.
- National resonator instruments made from 1928 to 1940 were louder thanconventional acoustic guitars of the era. They were also very popular withHawaiian and Blues musicians in the late 1920's and early 1930's.
National's two types of resonators:
The single cone and the tricone.
National made two types of resonator instruments: tricone and single conemodels. Tricone instruments have a very sweet and warm tone. This is due to their long decay (sustain) and slight attack. Single cone Nationals are slightly louder than Tricones, and have a sharp (loud) attack with short decay (sustain). Because of this, single cone Nationals sound much like a banjo. Which type of resonator you like may depend on what style ofmusic you like. Many blues players feel the combination of singlecone resonator, steel body, and mahogany neck used on the Duolian is the ultimate Blues guitar. The fancier nickel plated brass, single cone metalbody instruments such as the Style O don't have as bluesy a tone as the less ornate Duolian. This is attributed to their brass, not steel,body material. But they sure do look great! Personally, I feel theTricone's smoother, more complex tone is the best National sound and look! A roundneck tricone (in my opinion) is theultimate resonator guitar.
- National resonator instruments use very thin aluminum speaker cones, known as 'cones', to mechanically amplify the sound of theinstrument. This style of mechanical amplification was inventedin the 1920's, before the advent of electric instruments.At the time of their invention, they were considered the loudestguitar available. Some National models have a single cone, others have three smaller cones (known as 'tricones' or 'triplates').
- In the single resonator models the convex 9.5' diametercone has a maple 'biscuit' on top of the cone. The biscuit has awooden maple saddle which the strings pass over, like a conventional acoustic flat top guitar.But unlike flattop acoustic guitars where thevibration of the wooden body creates the sound, in aNational resonator instrument the body acts as a speaker cabinet.When the strings are played, the vibration goes through thesaddle to the bridge and then vibrates the speaker conecausing it to 'resonate' and amplify the sound. Becausethere is fairly direct transmission of vibration from the stringsto the resonator, the single resonator guitar is the loudest ofthe resonator guitars.
In a tricone, the three 6' cones are set in a triangle. Two ofthe cones are on the bass side, and one on the treble side. Rather than a wooden biscuit bridge, there is an aluminum 'T' shaped bridge that connects to the center of each of the cones. A maple wooden saddle sits atop the T-bridge. The vibration from the strings goes through the saddle, which in turn vibrates the T-bridge, and then the three cones. The sound has farther to travel to get the cones resonating than with a single resonator guitar.Thus, that's why tricones are not as loud on the attack. However the sustain is greater, and the tone 'sweeter'. This is because there are three cones allvibrating together, producing more harmonics thana single resonator guitar.
1934 Duolian, 1936 Estralida, 1934 Style O (or Tricone s1/s2), reissue decal.
Vintage National Resonator Collectibility.
- As for collectibility, nickel plated Nationals are the most collectible,due just to the 'look' of the bright nickel plating. Beyond that, all the Tricone models are collectable, with thefancier styles 2,3 and 4 (all engraved) being more collectible than the plain style 1 Tricone. Be aware that almost all Tricone models came witheither a 'squareneck' or a 'roundneck' (and the necks are not interchangable). This refers to the shape of theback of the neck. Squareneck models can not be played like a standard guitar. They are only usable for Hawaiian or Country styles.Hence the roundneck Tricones are more versatile instruments. Squareneck tricone models are still sought by some Hawaiian-style players. But note Country-style players all seem to prefer wood body Dobro models, not Nationals.Hence wood body National resonator models have limitied appeal and are not nearly as valuable as a metal body Nationals. Andsquare neck Nationals also have little collectibility compared to round neck models. So the most collectible Nationals will alwaysbe metal body, round neck models.
- Another consideration with Nationals is the number of frets clear of the body. What this means is, how many frets are accessible for playing beforeyou run out of neck and hit the body. Prior to late 1934, all Nationals had 12 frets clear of the body. In late 1934, National shortened the body of their single cone instruments to give 14 frets clear of the body (note all Tricones stayed at 12 frets clear and were never upgraded). All guitar manufacturers during the early to mid-1930's made this switch in design.
Left: Straight cut 'f' holes on a 1929 Triolian.
Right: Rolled 'f' holes on a 1934 Sytle O.
Resonator Single Cone Sound Differences: 12 versus 14 Frets.
- The sound of 12 fret and 14 fret National single cones is different. Twelve fret instruments are a little louder since the body is bigger. The 'best'generation of 12 fret single cone metal-body Nationals is the 1933 to late 1934 varieties with 'rolled' F-holes. Prior to 1933, National straight-cut the F-holes in the single cone metal bodies. Starting in 1933, National rolled the edges of the F-holesmaking the body stiffer. The stiffer body forces the vibrations to theresonator instead of being absorbed by the body, hence giving better tone.When National switched to a 14 fret neck, all they did was to shorten the body, making it smaller. This made the body even stiffer, butalso decreased the size of the body. Hence 14 fret instruments sound and lookmore 'compact'. But on the other hand, 14 fret instruments are moreplayable. It's a trade-off. Personally, I like the early 14 fret varietieswith slotted pegheads (pre-1936) as a good balance between playability,looks, and sound. I also like the 1933 to late 1934 twelve fret, rolledF-hole models too, but then do seem less playable because of the 12 fret neck. The pre-1933 single cone models seem very crude to me. Also, whenNational switched to 14 fret necks they changed to a 10 inch fingerboardradius. Prior to this, most 12 fret necks have a completelyflat fingerboard radius (except for some 1934 twelve fret models). This is very uncomfortable to me (though if youplay bottleneck this makes little difference).
is a 'sandwhich'; first the fingerboard, than a middle
stiffening layer (about the same thickness as the fingerboard),
and then the bulk of the neck. National started doing
this technique in 1934 when they introduced 14 fret necks.
Other Vintage National Models and their Collectibility.
- Post-WWII resonator models, with semi-solid wood or hollow fiberglassconstruction have some collectability. This is becauseof their unique design and sound. But they bring even less than wood bodyresonator models from the pre-war period.
style 2 squareneck
Dobro Serial Number Lookup
- Some of the archtop models are interesting for historic reasons, but they are not considered collectable.
Flat top postwar models with Gibson bodies have some appeal, primarily due to their Gibson construction.
National ukuleles are very collectable. If you have one for sale, contact me immediately for more details.
National Resophonic is back in business as of 1989 producing wood and metalbody resonator guitars.
National/Valco Map Shaped Electric Guitars.
- Most collectors are first attracted to these map-shaped electric guitarsby the way they look. The body shaperesembles a map of the United States. Introduced in late 1961 (but not available until 1962) and were made only to 1965. For the most part, theseguitars are inexpensive, low-end models. But they have an undeniable'cool' about them, due to their unique shape.
The res-o-glass versions of these guitars (the Val-Pro/Newport models) had theirguitar's finish first sprayed into a mold, and was then sprayed with Fiberglass.The two pieces (front and back) were screwed together with fivescrews entering from the back and going into blocks of maple glued to the inside of the body.Valco called the material Res-O-Glas, which was a combination of polyester resin and glass threads.
All three model lines (Glenwood, Val-Pro/Newport, Westwood) had basically threemodels. Each model only varied in color and number of pickups/knobs.
The 'standard' pickup appears to be a humbucker at first look. But really itis actually a single coil design, but smaller and less powerful than Valco's other pickup designs. Pieces of maple run from the neck joint to the endpin on both the top and back inside of the body. This stiffens the body and provides bracing for the bridge, pickup, tailpiece.
The 3-way tone switch on the single pickup models operates in similar fashion to that of a Gretsch Tennessean. In the first position, the treble is turnedoff. The second position has the treble full on. And in the third position, the bass isturned off. There are three volume knobs, one for each tone setting, and a master volume.
The three pickup models use the 3-way tone switch as a pickup selector (rhythm pickup, lead pickup, built-into-the-bridge transducer). This is similar to a Stratocaster's selector switch. For each position, there is a tone control (next to the switch) and a volume control (below the pickguard). The master volume is located next to the jack and tailpiece on 1964 models.
The sleek, space-age look of these guitars is enhanced by brightly colored finishes. The pearloid-and-abalone fingerboard inlay used onthe Glenwoods is what Valco called its 'butterfly pearl' pattern.
The 'standard' pickups on these models have a midrangey throaty sound, well-suited to slide playing. The models with a built-into-the-bridge pickup, have a bluesier, twangy sound with more treble. This bridge pickupis close to a Fender sound, but without the sustain.
- Lots of people ask for advice when buying a vintage Nationalresonator. So here's how I see these models, and what I would buy.
six string National resonator guitars.
This tailpiece is gold only because the rest
of the guitar is gold (normally the tailpiece
is nickel plated). You can also see
the 'biscuit' bridge under the metal
coverplate. This color was extremely rare,
but shows the typical 'frosted Duco' krinkle
type finish as used on most Duolians, but in
a shade of gray to dark green.
- If money and rarity was NOT an issue, there is only one choice; a vintage1928 to 1941 National Tricone roundneck. These are simply the best soundingresonator guitar bar-none (regardless of era or brand or model). Theirsophisticated sound is simply amazing. The style doesn't really matter;the plain Style 1 sounds no different than the engraved Style 4 (thoughsome claim the plainer Style 1's do sound better because the body is stiffer).
Second place would go the the 1934 to 1936 vintage 'Don' single cone models. With a german silver body and asingle cone resonator, these are great guitars. Also the 1932 to 1932 vintage Style Nis right up there too (essentially the same guitar but with a 12 fret neck).
Of course this is the real world, and money and rarity DO matter. Withthat in mind, nothing can beat the a vintage 1929 to 1940 Duolian. At $500 to $1500 (depending on condition, originality and playability), not much can beat these. I personally like the 1934 to 1935vintage Duolians with 14 fret necks and open pegheads.
- But vintage Nationals aren't for everyone. You have to be carefulwhen buying one, especially the low-cost Duolians. Warped necks andbad neck sets are common, and expensive to repair. A warped neck on a Duolian will require the fingerboard to be removed, the neck straightened,a truss rod installed, the fingerboard re-attached, a fret job,and the neck re-set. An easy $500 or more repair.
- As mentioned above, vintage National resonators aren't for everyone.Vintage Nationals are peculiar, and you have to know what to look for.NEW National resonators have become very popular. Theyhave adjustable necks and sound great. One of the best sounding new Nationalis the 'polychrome' tricones. With a steel body and three resonators,these are great guitars. But they are the butt-ugliest things in the worldthough (what's up with that new 'krinkle' finish'?). If you can't get over their looks, the new nickel plated brass body Style 1 and 1.5are great new Nationals, that look AMAZING and sound great (though theydon't sound as good as the new steel body 'polychrome' triplate).
A lot of people ask me how good the new reissue Nationals are. I haveto admit, they are damn good. And I'm not the only one that feelsthis way. Since the late 1980's when National was reformed andback in business, their instruments have gotten better and better. Atfirst, when they were only making wood body models, and I wasn'tvery impressed. But now that they are making metal body single coneand tricone models, their feel and look has much improved(the sound of their reissues has always been excellent).They've improved so much that the reissues have actually caused the vintage National market to flatten. Prices for vintage 1930's Nationalshas actually dropped in the past two years becausedemand for the originals has fallen so dramatically. This hasespecially been the case for vintage Tricones. This is probablydue to the fact that the vintage tricones were much moreexpensive than vintage single cone models, making the reissues even moreappealing.
- But there are some differences in the old and new models:
- Body Material: All new National nickel-plated bodiesare made of Brass, not German Silver (most original 1928-1940 nickel-plated vintage models except the Style O, 35 and 97were German Silver, not brass).Sorry, but brass just doesn't sound nearly as good asGerman Silver, or even steel bodies. This is especiallya problem on the Tricone reissues (except for the 'polychrome' tricone model).
- Neck Finish and Feel: National now uses a water-based paint because of California environmental issues. This makes the neck feel significantly different than vintage Nationals with extremelythin lacquer finishes. Also the reissues have a flatterneck profile, unlike the 'baseball bat' vintage neckprofiles and 'V' neck profiles.
- Body Finish: National today can not recreate the original'Frosted Duco' vintage National Duolian finish. This finish styleformula was patented in the 1930's, and has apparentlybeen lost. I know of no one on this planet that can recreate that finish today.
- Styling: New Nationals have a different styleand look (especially the single cone models). They just look and feel new, especially the necks.
- Truss Rods: New Nationals all have adjustable truss rods.I know, this is technically good; the original models hadeither no truss rod, or a non-adjustable truss rod. But I'msorry, seeing a truss rod on new Nationals justisn't right (call me a purist).
- 14 Frets Clear: You can't buy a new National metal body resonatormodel with 14 frets clear of the body. All single cone metal body reissues are based on the 1933-1934 twelve fret, rolled 'F' holesingle cone body style. Of course this applies to triconereissues too as original tricones were never availablein 14 fret versions.
- Admittedly, these are small details. And the market must alsofeel they are small details since the demand and price forvintage Nationals has dropped so much. Check out National'shome page for more details on new Nationals:http://www.nationalguitars.com/instruments.html
National Resonator Guitar Serial Numbers
Other Post-WW2 National Models.- After WW2, National made many non-resonator guitar models.To understand the how and why of this, a short history lesson in required.
In 1935 National and Dobro merged to form the National-Dobro Company. Within a year they moved the company's offices and production to Chicago. There National-Dobro concentrated on electric instruments and amplification, rather than the resonator guitars for which they were known. In 1941, the Chicago Musical Instrument Company (CMI) gained exclusive distribution rights to National's electric instruments. Remember this was the early age ofelectric guitars, and electrics basically made National's resonatorinstruments obsolete. But with the December 1941 attacks on Pearl Harbor, National's guitar production was ceased by government legislation and its workforce re-trained for War-related manufacturing. In 1943 the remaining stock holders of National-Dobro were bought out by Vic Smith, Al Frost, and Louis Dopyera, who formed the Valco Manufacturing Corporation (Valco is an acronym for Vic, Al, and Louis). When the War ended, Valco re-vested itself into the musical instrument industry and built instruments and amplifiers throughout the 40s, 50s and most of the 1960s.
At the same time WW2 brought a similar fate to Gibson's factory, where as much as 90% of that company's production went toward the war-effort. In 1944 CMI bought Gibson, and after WW2, this set up a link between Valco and Gibson.Until the late 1950s some National-branded instruments used Gibson body parts. So 'National' acoustic and electric modelscould have a National neck and a Gibson body! This can be seen,for example, on National/Valco models that use a J-45 acoustic guitarbody, but have a National neck. Or a Gibson ES-175 body with a National neck and National pickup system. All these National modelswill have the post-war National/Valco metal serial number plateand are considered 'Nationals' (not Gibsons).
Back to the Table of Contents
|
tenor guitars are pretty to look at, they are fairly
useless as instruments today. Tenors were marketed
during the late 1920s and 1930s to get banjo players
to convert to (the increasingly popular) guitar. Not
much need for that today, hence their collectibility is
very limited.
Serial numbers
(How to Find the Year)
National Vintage Serial Numbers
Dating A Dobro
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